PS4 Backwards Compatibility

While backwards compatibility has been available in some shape or form as far back as the Atari 7600, it wasn't a feature gamers expected to find on their consoles; it was a bonus when it appeared but hardly mandatory. The PlayStation 2 changed that by being fully compatible with the entire PlayStation library barring a handful of games. We saw this trend continue with the Wii and, to an extent, the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, as enabling your system to be backwards compatible provided a large selection of games for your new console and encouraged developers to keep creating software for the previous hardware version. With the PlayStation 4, rumors swirled over whether or not Sony would provide backwards compatibility to past PlayStation consoles and now that the console is officially announced, we have our answer.

Disc-Based Compatibility
Sadly, Sony announced at the February 2013 unveiling of the PlayStation 4 that the console would not be compatible with any past PlayStation 1, 2 or 3 disc-based games. While this came as a shock, Sony does have a good reason for what some gamers are calling a huge mistake. The combination of the unique architecture of past PlayStation hardware releases, such as the Emotion Engine or the Cell Processor, and the fact that Sony is using “off the shelf” parts with the PlayStation 4 means that by default, the PlayStation 4 cannot play past PlayStation games properly. To natively play these games, Sony would have to add the older technology into the PlayStation 4, either compromising some of the features already present or raising the cost or the system. While gamers may lament the fact that backwards compatibility is not a part of the PlayStation 4, would you pay extra for it? Would you sacrifice some of the PlayStation 4 hardware in exchange for the ability to play past games?

The trade-off is for the best, as it's important for Sony to focus on the future rather than be shackled to the past. As you'll read later, this doesn't necessarily mean the PlayStation 4 may never be backwards compatible as Sony has a few tricks up its sleeve.

Downloadable Game and Content Compatibility
Disc-based games are only one part of the type of content the PlayStation 3 has received, with downloadable content, such as new levels, characters and stages and even full games being available for download via the PlayStation Store. However, none of this content will be available on the PlayStation 4 for the same reasons disc-based games are not compatible either. For many gamers, this has been a tougher pill to swallow. You'll always be able to play your disc-based PlayStation 3 games provided you have a working PS3, but what will happen to the digital content once Sony shuts off the servers? It costs money to host this content and it's not feasible to believe that Sony will host this content forever. Will these digital-only games be lost to the sands of time? Many of this content cost money as well, money that will most likely not be refunded should Sony remove the access to the games you paid for.

PS4 and PS3 Backwards CompatibilitySony has begun to address this issue since the launch of the PS4 by bringing certain digital games to the new platform. These titles include FlOw, Flower, Escape Plan, and Sound Shapes. In addition, many digital titles that have been released since the launch of the PS4 have been "cross-buy". This means that if you bought the game on the Vita or the PS3, you already own it on the PS4 and you can download the superior version without paying for it again. The same goes for the above mentioned titles and many other releases such as Tiny Brains, and SteamWorld Dig. As time goes on, we will most likely see more and more titles like these make the jump to PS4 with improvements and zero cost for those of us who already purchased them, or wish to play them on multiple Sony gaming systems.

The Upcoming release of PlayStation Now
As mentioned earlier, just because the PlayStation 4 doesn't ship with compatibility doesn't mean that it may never appear in the future. Sony has mentioned two routes they are looking into: emulation and streaming.

We've already seen PlayStation 2 games emulated on PlayStation 3 hardware, with games such as Bully and Grand Theft Auto III being released digitally for the system with other games like Metal Gear Solid 3 being released in disc form. With this approach, it's up to the developer and publisher to take the time to make their back catalog available for the PlayStation 4; while we'll see some games emulated, it will only be a fraction of the total library. Emulation may also present new glitches or bugs not present in the original release as well.

The option that Sony has confirmed to be going with is streaming, as mentioned at E3 2013. Confirmed at the beginning of this year, Sony announced a program called PlayStation Now. PlayStation Now is going to be a service available to PlayStation 4, PlayStation 3, Vita, Smart TV, Smartphone, and Tablet owners. The service acts a lot like Netflix, which pioneered home streaming for movies.

PS4 Backwards CompatibilityWith PlayStation Now, you'll be able to instantly access titles across the aforementioned devices simply by logging into your PSN account. All of your saves will go with your, regardless of what devices you play on. The content will come straight to you via Cloud technology so you won't need to wait for it to download. It will be like watching a movie, only you're in control! This is the product of the Gaikai streaming technology that Sony purchased last year, and it's looking to be a great alternative to traditional backwards compatibility.

The first game available to stream on the service will be Naughty Dog's smash hit of 2013, The Last of Us. Beyond: Two Souls has also been named. The catalog will feature PS3 hits to start from what has been announced and will first be available on PS3 and PS4, with support for Vita and other devices coming soon there after. Pricing and subscription models have not been detailed, but it has been said that two options will be available. One is a subscription with all access to the games, while the other would offer a more À la carte option of renting the games on a single purchase basis.

Regardless of how they handle it, this service shows that Sony is not willing to let the timeless experiences of PlayStation 3 to fade into the folds of time. With PlayStation Now, we will have the capacity to relive those experiences not only on our PS4, but on most other devices we own. That alone sounds like a good deal to me.

Article by - Joshua Phillips
Insert Date: 4/22/2013

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Comments

ps1 games

if you dont want them ill take them

I agree with that idea that

I agree with that idea that they should come out with a separate unit that can play old games through the new gen system via USB or something like that. (Something like the 32X or the Sega CD for the Sega Genesis) although I personally don't think they will do something like that because the typical consumer probably would not pay extra money for a separate unit. That they would have to plug into there next gen system just so they can play old games when they probably have the old system/s. The best way for Sony to get around the BC issue is to come out with a request form on the PSN that the consumer can fill out and request that old game be put on line for purchase via PSN.

The people have already

The people have already purchased and own the game, Paying twice is not an option most people would choose and still not have a hard copy.

ps4 backwards compatibility

THIS! It's the best solution i've seen so far. Why not make a device that can be added to play the older games. Like a second device that attaches, or connects to, to be bought seperately (at a reasonable price, of course) and continue to use those old games that we all have and would like to play again. I'm with this person's POV; I don't get to play often and have a stack of ps1 and ps2 games that i have only been able to scratch the surface of due to real life. I don't have a huge library, i just don't get much time to just sit down and play. It would be nice to be able to upgrade to the PS4 and still be able to play my old games too. I don't like the idea of streaming and paying to play games I ALREADY HAVE! There has to be a better way, unless it's Sony's plan to milk it for what it's worth, in which case count me out.

big issue over nothing!

I have a simple solution, keep your old consoles and play the games on that!!! Why complicate something thats so simple?

old consoles: 1. they get

old consoles: 1. they get old* 2. they take upp space** 3. all the wires is a hell to deal with * aka does not work as well as when they are new sometimes beyond repair and repair could be more expansive than a new one ** especially when you live in a small apartment

because old systems break and

because old systems break and you can't fix them (i.e. the parts you need to get are just need not made anymore)

Ramblings

PS4 needs to have backwards compatability, which in turn would be a major selling point for the console, the old ps3's the ones that originally supported BC have a higher value than say the very latest and greatest, the slimmest of the slim, the biggest of the big HDD's kinda interesting no? To the person who stated just keep the old system, well im sorry but I dont have all the space in the world, I already have my ps3 ps2 digital tv recorder, N64 and a billion wires.. (ugh, wires suck lol) I been gaming forever, one thing I know for sure is that theres nothing software cant accomplish, thats partly why I love pc's and the tiuy teams of people who work to emulate everything, from other computer systems commodor amega whatever and whatever to atari lynx (old handheld) to gameboy game gear, ps2 even, sure some may not be perfect, especailly the current ps2 emu, but given time and resources they would be. there are so many smart and talented people in the world. all you need is a super dooper pc trooper hahaha.. a gaming goliath.. a mean machine. I would love to see game prices shot down in flames, cd's gone forever, I dont know about all you guys, but for me the laser is always the first thing to go, pretty much, in my case the only thing to ever go, I hate it.. sure I smoke, and it takes years for them to finally kick the bucket but still.. I only really play tekken on my ps3 these days, tekken 6, now it wont even load properly.. I went to the ps store, guess what I saw, tekken 6 psp only, wtf is up with that?? I was prepared to pay and digitally download the game I already own, but nooooo. hmm thinking about it in depth, the killing of the cd rom drive blue ray would indeed cut the cost of the console almost in half. so what, a few out of many may get a jailbroken ps3 or whatever steal from the store, but they will never be able to play online, and to most of us, onlines where its at. to be completely honest, even then I only ever touch tekken 6 while Im drinking.. which is at least a couple times a week. I am kinda looking forward to the new god of war tho.. seems only way I'll be able to play it is if I shell out a couple hundie and buy another console.. so not worth it, I waited years before I finally got my ps3, I was still content with the ol ps2, still am in alot of ways and is why I had over 150 games for it, mind you I had a few doubles lol. cut it back to around 50, 50 games I will never ever sell, hell theres still a few I need to buy. better do so before they become expensive huh. heh. I havent counted but I own about 10 ps3 games, 15 max.. played doezens more tho.. rented, which brings me to another point, the old rumor mill is churning hard, supposedly one wont be able to play pre-activated games, aka 2nd hand games. how silly is that? united video buys a few copys of all the major games and almost at least 1 of everything else. there must be loads of united videos in the world, if that happens lol, man these people *taps the side of his head* must be crazy (obelix refferance) ah well they will feel the burn soon enough, that or all games will become as cheap as chips to purchase. which even if they did, I'd need a demo to convince me, and not just some stupid hype trailer bs. anyways, if the ps4 cant play ps3 games, then the cpu and gpu cant be that much better, because as I said software takes care of everything, apps whatever you wanna call it.

keep BC

i love my old games, i dont care if the graphics look bad or the sound is funny, thats all just a part of the old games that i loves, i want to be able to buy a new system and still be able to play the games i loved over again when i want to. i didnt buy a PS3 because i was happy with my PS2 that i could play all my old games on. My husband and i were talking about which system to buy IF we finally upgrade and the deciding factor for the PS4 will be BC.

i say no backwards compatibility

the price would like be higher than PS3! Get used to it guys! Someday u might get tired of playing the same PS3 games ,and BC on PS4 is like a bad idea and besides it'll like have new,awsome,and upgraded features! So what's the point of BC on PS4!?

agree with no backwards compatibility

price would actually be higher than PS3! (when super slim came) Plus i have all PlayStations! Im never getting rid of them no matter what! I will give them to my child whenever i get married! Keep every console like a memory of the past and never get rid of them! So when i get the PS4 im keeping it even though there's no BC on it! BC is a waste of money that Sony will put on it! Plus i agree with the new,awsome,and upgraded features! Hello new entertainment system and new technology that might be included!

if you agree with no backwards compatibility

What will you do when your old console is out of commission and Sony will not give support to the old models? Will you happily play "frisbee" with your old games cds? Your child will be happy with that I suppose.

RE: i say no backwards compatibility

The 12GB PS3 super slim can be bought for £148.99 & sony is making profit on that model, the hardware that allows for PS3 games to run is actually really cheap for Sony to make now. To allow backwards compatibility wouldn't really effect the price much at all. Putting it in the machine caters for more users, it doesn't effect the new ones, so if you're not interested in playing PS3 games then you have nothing to worry about either way. All that's really needed to play PS3 games is the cell processor & maybe the RSX (GPU), possibly with the ram from the console, but manufacturing that tech is probably well below £40, for everything required, if just a cell can do it by itself, with the new GPU & RAM that goes into PS4 then costs of Backwards Compatibility reduce even further. Best thing for Sony is to make a cheaper model that has no Backwards Compatibility & another model comes with it, with a slight increase in costs to the users that want the BC model. Obviously the fact that PS3 release at a price which many people think was expensive is why people think Backwards Compatibility will be costly to consumers if it's placed in the PS4, but that simply isn't the case. It's entirely possible that the CPU PS4 has could have an intergrated multicore cell processor, since Sony apparently patented a 1 PPE, 4 SPU processor chip back in 2010, bolting a number of these together, fabricating at a low nanometer size, if they're capable of out of order processing, have plenty of cache & Sony has set-up decent development tools there's little reason why this couldn't be a good option for both Sony, developers & consumers alike. A chipset like this as the core CPU of an APU could allow for some very flexible options for developers. If the system has plenty of RAM, this system would be very good. Anyway the point of BC is it's an option that some consumers find appealing, it allows for you to only use one device in the place of 4 consoles & provides a contingiency in case any of those older machines break down. What if you couldn't get hold of a PS1-PS3? You'd be left with games that you can't play. Even if you can buy a PS1 for cheap to replace a broken console it's just extra cost. BC is a valuable option to many consumers. Personally I wouldn't get board of picking up my old PS2 games like GT3, retro gaming that can be easily had is definitely a decent selling point for an entirely new games console. From a company's perspective, the appeal consumers have to your products is important, it helps with marketing & a device that's fully functional will always have more appeal than a device that's more limited, especially when not having a function that other, competitive systems do have gives your product less appeal. BC is easier for microsoft to put in the next Xbox & will almost certainly be a part of the full blown games console, the Wii U has BC with Wii games, for Sony to not have it in PS4 would put them behind their competitors.

BC is a great thing.

I had the original 60GB model of the PS3, loved it and played many games from all 3 generations of the Playstation. Sadly just before it's 6th birthday, it YLoD'd. I enjoy gaming for what it is currently, and what it was throughout my childhood, meaning I'd like to go back and play my old games. I don't however have the space on my entertainment center for all of my old consoles, nor do I have the time to pull them out whenever I get a chance/inclination to enjoy my older games. I appreciate the availability of these games made through digital download because it distributes these classics to a new generation of gamers that may have either not been able to play them when they were new, or because they were too young. I don't necessarily feel that I should have to go back and pay for a game that I already own just to play it on my new console. I understand that the BC would increase cost, a cost I'd happily pay. It'd be interesting if they were to market two separate consoles, one without, and one with backwards compatibility to satisfy both crowds interests. At any rate, backwards compatibility is a feature that needs to be seriously considered in the new generation. Also, my wife has created a petition to show support for backwards compatibility in the PS4, if anyone would like to sign, go here (yes, I know the link has spelled "Playstation" wrong but the actual title and all other spellings are correct): http://www.thepetitionsite.com/251/349/981/make-plastation-4-backwards-compatible/?cid=FB_TAF p.s. Another feature they should consider is the ability to play music while gaming, with all other computers, consoles, etc.. being able to run music in the background, this shouldn't be overlooked either.

PS4

the first PS4's that come out should come with full backwards compatability with all PS3 PS2 & PS1 games.

ChicagoMatt/Backwards Compatibility

I completely agree, the first PS4's that comes out should come with full backwards compatibility with all PS3, PS2 & PS1 games. I have a huge library of PS1 and PS2 games, so when the new PS3 came out, I had to buy it! Needless to say I still have that PS3 and I have even had people offer me $1500 for it and I refuse to sell it. That is how much I love my original 01-PS3. If the PS4 does not have backward compatibility, then it better be a lower price than the original PS3 that had so much to offer from the start, and they better keep selling the PS2 and the PS3 for all the customers that still have PS3 and PS2 and PS1 games. With the price of these games, we need to be able to still play them. I look at all my game purchases as an investment (running in the thousands of $) and I do not re-sell my games! I have over 200 PS3 games in my library, over 300 PS2 and over 70 PS1 games and over 200 Blu-ray movies, so if I ever have kids, I would like to see them and my grand kids one day play these awesome games, Lord knows I still play them! I hope Sony does make it where there is "Backward Compatibility" or I will then wait a few years for the price of the new PS4 system to drop and I will simply stick with my PS3 for now. Thank you, ChicagoMatt

Hi!

I like your comment. I'm collector, too. Ad me on PSN; Evaneself-UK

What do we want? BC! What do we want it in? THE PS4!

Whenever there's extra addons for my favorite games or full games for that matter, I always save up my money and buy it. But for the PS4 not to have BC? That's crazy. With the upcoming release of all of these new games in 2013 in addition to the latest CoD that just released last November, not having BC would be as pointless as trying to drive a car without gas. I play CoD as much as the next guy, along with other fan favorites like Uncharted, InFamous, and my all time favorite LittleBigPlanet, and with those games comes massive amounts of DLC. Along with the $60 price tag on each CoD, there's usually 4 map packs, each about 15 bucks each. 120 dollars. Ever since World at War I've bought all the packs. That's about 600.00 bucks. SIX HUNDRED BUCKS. I could buy two PS3s for that much, and Sony is telling us "nope can't use it its old. gotta have new stuff." Nope. I think I'll stick with my entire PS family for life. Hell, I've stuck with the 3rd gen PSP that still plays UMD's and it works like new. Ok, ok, I'm getting a little off track. All in all, if you don't appeal to the CUSTOMER instead of your want for money. (Lol i kinda went off topic a lot. :D)

Low chance

There is a very low chance of PS3 backwards compatibility with the next Playstation. I would say about 20% or less. This is because of the unique architecture of the cell and the cell's failure. Because Sony won't use proprietary hardware like this anymore and IBM is no longer producing these type of processors outside of the PS3 it will become very difficult to emulate the manner at which the PS3 runs instructions. This is a similar issue to running a PS2's architecture on a PS3, but much tougher in reverse. PS2 emulation should be possible and relatively easy. They already have it working over just software on the PS3. However, they may not allow this now that they sell PS2 classics on the network. Let's hope otherwise.

How to get Backwards Compatibility into PS4

As a starting point I'll just say that the cost of the processing hardware in the PS3 super slim is dirt cheap, even if Sony has indeed gone with what Eurogamer reported about an 8core AMD Jaguar CPU & GPU based on the 7970M there has been mention of an additional computing unit that can help with physics, graphics & a multitude of different tasks, the only that can really do this is a cell unit. Sony has previously patented a small modular cell processor, which housed 1 PPE & 4 SPUs, PS3 has 1 PPE & 8 SPUs, if Sony included 2 of these modular units then backwards compatibility may be possible. With Sony continuing to manufacture hardware for the PS3 Super Slim it's not like cell isn't accessible to them. You call cell a failure, but it's inside of more than 60 million products (Sony has sold more than 60 million PS3s), I don't see how that can be called a failure and I doubt Sony would see it as such either, not just because it didn't garner worldwide universal use accross the consumer electrics industry. If PS4 does indeed have a module connected to it's CPU that can handle both physics code & graphical effects code then it can only really be some kind of modern cell module. Previous rumours for PS4 was that it would have a 4xPPE, 16xSPU for a CPU, if this has made it into the PS4 then Backwards Compatibility could happen. Other things that may effect BC are the type of GPU in use, though the 7970m is far more powerful than the RSX, but the change from NVidia to AMD may possibly effect things, RAM has gone from 2 separate pools of RAM, to one very fast pool of RAM, with an almost 40 fold increase in bandwidth accross the console. If PS4 has this cell module then doubt PS4 couldn't have backwards compatibility.

Black and White

"PS4" will run PS3 games; And the latest rumoured specs are not accurate. There is no 7970m /or variant of/ in the "PS4". The Jaguar modules can /as close to/ duplicate the Cell as any APU can possibly do at the moment; And neither will Jaguar be the same in the "PS4" as they are on x86 PC. The bandwidth of "PS4" UMA will likely reach 211Gb/sec so as to /also/ duplicate the SPU local store memory as the Jaguar cores access it directly. The /new/ President and CEO of Sony knows that the gaming division is more important to Sony above any other division; And its potential could be paramount to returning Sony to the company it once was in the eyes' of its consumers and investors.

RE: Black and White

How do you know this? Exactly how are the Jaguar Cores (or whatever they are) different from standard AMD ones? VG247 has similar specs for the PS4 as Eurogamer, VG247 had some pretty close to accurate rumours for Vita before it was announced. Why would Sony go to AMD if they aren't going to use modiffied versions of existing GPU & CPU technology? Is Sony using AMD or are they using another company? Is PS4 all AMD with changes or is it Something Sony has mainly developed in house? Eurogamer stated that Digital Foundries sources from CES this year said the PS4 had the GPU as an 18 Compute Units version of the 7970m (that GPU having 20 as standard), along with a small amount of underclocking to get the GPU down to 75watts, so how can this GPU be completely different to the 7970m? I'd really be interested to hear what the facts are, so whoever you are please can you post again? I'd gather that NDAs have been lifted about the specs for the PS4 if these rumours are coming out now, so I take it the PS4 is coming very soon.

Parallelism

Jaguar was not in the original "PS4" design up until very recently. Jaguar as a CPU/APU module is 3.1mm.sq and has a very low TDP - but it's still a potent /CPU/ design when 2 modules are put together with a GPU in "SoC". Both Jaguar and Steamroller do have something in common - "parallelism". That one word right there is everything you need to know about what Sony wants to achieve and what their Studios wanted in terms of their own "new coding practices". By dropping the TDP from Steamroller to Jaguar there is only one or two things an Engineer will look for as a result: 1) a bigger /powerful/ GPU 2) more memory.

Parallelism II

1/2/3/4 of the 8 Jaguar cores will be used to copy the effect of a /PPU/ in the Cell. Jaguar modules with /a certain number of /Cell-like SPU/ within - accessing high bandwidth memory - is a result of 4GB likely being the main limitation in Orbis. This is a part of the "special sauce" Sony implied once Microsoft started off with their own "more than meets the eye" address to incite expectation (where they realised that it was lower than they expected; Particularly with the 1.2Tflop confirmation).

Re: Parellelism II

So it's not so much that the Jaguar cores will process the same code as cell did in PS3, but they just have added cell like components to make them capable of doing so. That sounds pretty straightfoward. I can buy this, certainly wouldn't believe Sony would drop BC from their next playstation, especially with the effort it would take to alter code from games on PSN+, plus the incentive for new Playstation customers with an already available catalogue of games is too great for Sony to not do this. If Sony isn't going with a modded 7970m then what are they using? The most up to date rumours say it's a version of that GPU, with 18CUs rather than 20, plus a 6% underclock to reduce power to 1.84TFlops & that this is part of the the APU design. The Eurogamer article made it sound like there would be another component connected to the CPU, like an additional GPU. I'd originally thought this was a cluster of SPUs, being that rumours said the unit was capable of CPU & GPU functions and maybe audio decoding as well. Obviously something that can target many different functions alongside the main workhorses would help to reduce strain on the CPU & GPU so more of their performance can be unlocked. What else could this additional module be? Is it just another, smaller GPU like what's already in the A10 series? If it is something like a 7660D (or whatever that model number's called), then would that mean the total performance could be boosted well above what the main GPU can handle?

Orbis

Orbis' Jaguar modules [and their cores] can duplicate what an SPE does with local store memory - only that local store now is a direct link to Wide/IO type memory; Somewhere in the region of 154 - 192Gb/sec. I don't know whether it's specifically GDDR5 memory; Maybe it is, but it doesn't make much sense to use something like that in a UMA approach. It's highly likely a "RSXed" AMD 7950, in much the same way a heavily customised nVidia 7800 was "de-X86ed" to work with the Cell and a Ringbus. It won't be GCN2, but it will be GCN1 - which compares easily to nVidia's Kepler cores with AMD's latest 13.1 Catalyst drivers in terms of percentile frames [that's now a moot point since at the "to the metal" coding is extraneous to those mandatory x86 faults]. Jaguar/GCN//APU/SoC/WideoIO will perform like a Cell was brought forward into 2013 from 2001. The Cell really was ahead of its time. The Module; I don't know anything about that, but if Microsoft has one and AMD is also architecting GCN standards for Sony, they could be one of the same. I doubt very much that you will have a APU GPU and a Discrete GPU; No game developer wants anything to do with multi-GPU architectures chewing into firm limits on available Bandwdith. The GPU in the PS Orbis is going to be a lot more powerful than any 7950 GPU you're familiar with in terms of "placement x86 architectures".

TWO PS4s IS THE ANSWER

It seems obvious to me. One PS4 with full BC, and maybe a smaller hard drive/less ports to balance out the price a bit, and then another less expensive one that just plays PS4 games. They would have to be careful to not be too confusing like the PS3 was at launch with like 3 or 4 different models though. They just need 2. One for long-time PlayStation fans and one for people who just want to play PS4 games. If they did that I think it would be a success for gamers and Sony alike!

why BC would be a good idea

it can make games look better and play better ie. smoothing and it can add other features that the ps4 may come with

Bring Back Backwards compatibility!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to be able to play ALL of my PS games in just one console. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if I can play all of my PS games from PS1 to PS4.

BC

I hope they have BC on the new PS4. My PS3 just took a dive last week. $150 to fix or wait for the new one to come out? Sad thing is, my PS2 still runs like a champ and the PS3 died after 1 1/2 years.

backwards tec

the only thing i would have got a ps3 is if it could play ps2 games it dont so i will stick with internet games make ps4 able to play all ps games and i my pay for it even at $500 for console

I hope so

It'll be even better if it runs PS2 and PS1 games, although by then, I bet everything good in the PS1 library will be available on PSN, and many excellent PS2 games, too.

I want backward compatibility?????

PS2 == I want Ps1 BC PS3 == I want Ps1and Ps2 BC PS4 == I want Ps1, Ps2 and Ps3 BC PS5 == I want Ps1,Ps2, Ps3 and Ps4 BC PS6 == I want Ps1, Ps2, Ps3, Ps4 and Ps5 BC and so on and so on. Well you get my point. Really ? When is this ever going to end? I say stop the BC now or it never end. Imagine when the PS10 comes out. Ever heard of a show call hoarder? Those that keep/collect all the game since the Ps1 will have no room/living space to move by the time the PS10 comes out. Look at it in the production point of view, the extra work they have to do just to make it BC. I own the 1st 80gig PS3 and not all of the PS2 game are compatible. 1st what Sony needs to do is ignor the backward compatibility, get rid of that useless motion sensor on the controller. Get rid of that Avi port, everyone should own an HD TV by now. And most important thing of all allow us to mod the system the way we want and however we want it, because we pay for it. What I mean let say I want to add a liquid cooling system on my PS4, I should be able to that, provided that a third party produce the parts to fit perfectly and easily. or if I want to add 3 Hard Disk on it, I should be able to do that without jail breaking it or other difficult method. I know you probably say why not just get a PC, well a PC is not a dedicated gaming system unless you willing to spend a lot of money on it. Btw I do have a PC. Bottom line is the next GEN system should be a next GEN system. Not a system with a bunch of string tying it to an empty pepsi can driving down the road.

Are you being facetious or

Are you being facetious or are you just plain dumb? How the hell does wanting the ps4 to play ps3 games make one a hoarder?? For having an extra square foot or two of discs? Did you throw out your dvds when blueray cam out? Would you have bought a br if they didn't play dvds? Plus many ps1,2 and 3 games are just as if not more fun despite the poorer graphics. With past systems technical limitations forced developers to produce games that the user enjoyed actually playing not just looking at. I can't see any reason to buy a new system if all I get is slightly sharper/smoother graphics if I can't play my old games too. Waste of money for a status symbol. PS3 at least offered a different gaming experience with greatly improved 3d games but I can't imagine the next gen will much different than the current.

confusing the issue

not to put you down, bit you are absolutely WRONG here. as anyone that's been to my place knows, I have shelves and shelves of games. every game I've had in my life, in fact. and considering I started playing games at 2 years old, well... now I'm not saying it isn't more difficult when I move, but as a collector, I've taken that burden on myself and I'm proud of my collection. YOU throw away your games. I don't want you to tell ME to. and Sony made a name for themselves as providers of backwards compatibility when nobody else did. why should it end?! I demand that my ps10 plays my ps1,2,etc games. and why not? after all, I supported sony all these years, and for them to turn their backs on their fans only gives me cause to stop feeding my paychecks into their accounts. as things stand, if the ps4 doesn't support ps1,2,3 and psn games, I won't buy it. not new, not used. I will never again buy a Sony product unless they correct their mistakes. every piece of Sony equipment I've ever owned has broken down and now they're trying to rationalize being even cheaper by removing one of the things that attracted customers to them early on? nay I say. no more systems that break down within months of launch, no more random fires in peoples living rooms, and no more refusing backwards compatibility simply to drive up their profit margins. it won't stop as long as we, the customers, keep paying for this rampant abuse. but one way or the other, if the ps* has backwards compatibility or not will never change how many Atari games are in my house. and neither will your flawed logic sir or madam. on another note, I'm really pleased to learn that you are doing quite well enough, but many people I know still cannot afford an HDTV. just because some,etching is true for you will never mean you are safe to make assumptions about the rest of the country, let alone the world. well, that's my $.02. sorry about the wall of text

Why I find it important.

Gaikai may rotate games or make a person buy games that take up space on the hard drive and that is not something I want. I don't even know if they will sell some of the games I like or the games I am still in the market for buying. I have found sites that sell older games and Amazon is one of them and I would not like buying games I already own. I like having the discs, the choice of memory cards, and hard drive space to remember where I am at in a game, adding an entire game to my hard drive space is consuming my hard drive space and wasting money I have already spent towards Sony. I bought Play Station 2 and loved it and immediately when the backwards compatibility option for PS3 came out even though it was more expensive I didn't waste time I exchanged my PS2 for a lot less money than I originally paid for it without a problem and still paid $600 for my PS3 and bought games. I can hook up my Kindle Fire to my PS3, mp3, ipod, phone, laptop, PC, TV, cable receiver, karaoke, electronic picture frames, camera, video camera, VCR, a dj system, a modern turntable, adapters to the older systems for memory cards and controllers, different types of video cards and memory cards, an external hard drive, I have app options such as Netflix, Vudu, GameFly, etc., it hooks up to ethernet for PSN Store and as you well know allows for PS Eye, PS Move, Blutooth, BluRay, DvD, CD, and more. Even better my PS3 still runs since the day I bought it. When PS4 comes out I really want and need them to have backward compatibility and because I have a child I may have to have more time to save the money than they will be able to give me.

Backwards Compatability

I think they need to at least maintain BC for the PS3. Who really plays PS1 games anymore. They do not even work well with the controllers and ps2 is old now and the games are Standard Definition. PS3 is all high definition and there will not be enough of a ps4 library at launch to get people to purchase if they do not have bc to PS3.

bad assumptions

tenchu, Tekken, and metal gear solid are as irreplaceable in my(and many others) collection as shinobi, wrath of heaven, Tekken 5, zone of the enders, doa2, ff12, etc... just because you don't appreciate the oldies but goodies doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. in fact, from the public outcry over this, I'd say it doesn't mean anyone agrees with you. sorry to be harsh, and I respect your opinion, but I personally would like to decommission my old systems at some point. they're really starting to fall apart, and replacement parts are hard to come by where I live

RE: Backwards Compatibility

Dude, a lot of people still play PS1 games. Plus PS1 games are easy to emulate so they might as well.

New idea

This whole bc issue dose puzzle me i mean there are several rational and easy ways to make It work. The one I see Is naturally because of the cell processor it would be hard to emulate ps3 on the 4 but the Ingenious and overlooked key is in our rooms. Say Sony releases one ps4 no backwards compatible you have this big library of games, Sony Inacts a game trade option for either a small fee or free any ps3 games that are returned to stores like GameStop they could type in the bluse code or accept the trade in and give you a digital redemption code so Sony gets rid of disks you keep your game it can play on ps4 and you get rid of the used space occupied by disks

Backwards Compatibility

I bought an XBOX 360 instead of a PS3 because of a lack of Backwards Compatibility. I still play PS1 and PS2 games. If the PS4 will let me play those games, I will be likely to buy it. If it continues the trend of not offering Backwards Compatibility, I will not be buying.

yes backwatords compatability

I bought the damn game because i wanted to play it whenever i wanted. Not just for a few years and then throw it out. I'd love to be able to play my genisis games whenever i wanted, but im not gonna leave it on top of my tv. And im not gonna pay to play something i already paid for. so the ps Store needs to think up a way i can give them the code to my game or something so i can digitally download it. idc if THAt costs me just to send in my cd book with all my games. come on sony get with it.

PS4 BC

Yep! PS4 has to be able to play PS3 games. I have over 50 PS3 games, and there's no way I would buy a system that's not able to play them. The PS4 will also need to have something amazingly unique about it to tempt me in at an early stage, as it's likely to cost big ££££.

Playstation 4 backwards compatibility.

I am feed up with Sony not letting us play our games from PS2. Now we are looking at games from PS3 going south? Game Stop can and will sell games from PS3 just as they still do for PS2. Does Sony think we are that stupid to believe this crap? All I know for sure is my friends and myself will not be buying PS 4 if it does not have backwards compatibility. It will be something we pick up used. Sorry Sony, we are tired of hooking up one PS then another PS just to play our old games. Don't you guys know these games cost a lot of money and we buy them because we like them and want to keep playing them? I just want to know what in Hell is wrong with you? Matthew

Playstation 4 backwards compatibility.

I am feed up with Sony not letting us play our games from PS2. Now we are looking at games from PS3 going south? Game Stop can and will sell games from PS3 just as they still do for PS2. Does Sony think we are that stupid to believe this crap? All I know for sure is my friends and myself will not be buying PS 4 if it does not have backwards compatibility. It will be something we pick up used. Sorry Sony, we are tired of hooking up one PS then another PS just to play our old games. Don't you guys know these games cost a lot of money and we buy them because we like them and want to keep playing them? I just want to know what in Hell is wrong with you? Matthew

Gamestop's PS2 Games

The 3 gamestops near where i live have nearly stopped selling them theyre off the shelves and into a bin in the middle of the store with big discount signs all over them

Simple solution...

Make more than one model. One fully BC one not at all. Let it be the customer's choice. Personally, I would pay the extra cash for BC since I have an extensive library of PS 1&2 games. I know I'm not the only one. Two models is the way to go.

on the nose

^this! many of us, especially collectors, have a very sizable collection of ps1&2 games along with ps3 games and psn games. Sony fell from favor with a lot of fans when they removed backwards compatibility from the ps3 and fed us lies about how they couldn't add it without significantly impacting the price. the ps2 is old technology, and sony wants to force us into only playing the games they want us to have while being total cheapskates about it to drive up their profits. I still don't see why I can play shinobi if I buy it again, but I can't use my existing copy. not only should there be 2 models(fully bc and non bc) but there also shouldn't be a price difference more than say, a maximum of 100$ between the two. if Sony is so obsessed with maximizing profits that they refuse to do that, I don't see how even the most diehard supporters of Sony will continue to boast of their greatness

I second this!

Two models is the smartest choice here. I'd gladly pay the premium for the ability to reduce the number of cables, cords, controllers, accessories that I have hooked up/laying around. I also have an extensive library of playstation games from all three generations, and it would be nice to finally be able to play all my PS titles off of one system as opposed to having three separte consoles set up to play only a single generation of games each.

BC PLEASE

if this doesnt allow BC i am going to honestly stop playing...cant afford to continue to buy new games

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